So Ye Want to Start a Guild, Huh?

[Bartholomew Foulsteel]

I've seen a couple of posts recently which bring up this topic:

French Assassins
a hard decision...



These posts have a couple of things in common:

1) The poster blames "Big Guilds" for "stealing" all their members, and
2) The poster's guild seems to exist for the poster's benefit, not the members'.

Well mates, I've got bad news for you: THOSE are the resons your guilds are not successful. So how about we look at what the issues are and how to fix them, shall we?

Guilds are like small businesses. New ones start everyday, and fail everyday too. And like a business, you can't expect people to want to be hired to your business if this is your ad in the paper's want ads section:

New business called Wowzy Wowzy starting in Lakewood!

Rules:
1) You must call the boss "El Jefe" everytime you see him.
2) If you're late to work you get a warning.
3) Second time you're late you get docked a week's pay.
4) Third time you're late you're FIRED!
5) Don't ask me for help because you're not gonna get it!

Let's face it--NOBODY would even consider checking that place out. But why?

1) Nobody has any idea what kind of business it is.
2) There's no mention of what it offers its employees.
3) There's nothing but penalties for messing up.

Now, if that business fails, it's not Microsoft's fault. It's the small business owner for not giving any valid reason for being a member of the team.

So what should you do? Easy:

1) Ask yourself WHY you want to start a guild. If it's so you can be the boss of a bunch of people, you'll fail. If it's so you can be called Exalted Poobah, you'll fail.
2) Ask what your guild's mission is going to be. If you expect people to join so they can NOT ask for help, you'll fail.
3) Don't start with the penalties, that will just scare everybody away. Should there be some order? Probably, unless your guild is based on anarchy. Otherwise, not the thing to blast first thing on these forums or a website.
4) Write a code, or a plan, or guidelines to help your prospective guildmembers know what it is you're about. This should go into more detail than your basic mission statement.
5) What's in it for them? If you have nothing to offer, you'll get nothing in return.
6) Don't expect your prospects to magically understand everything you want your guild to be. EXPLAIN IT.
7) ADVERTISE! You need to post the above info on these forums, make a webpage or ten, and explain what you're doing to people in the game. Too much work? Then you probably shouldn't be trying to run a guild.


People join guilds for the same reasons they join any other club or organization--not because they have some sick need to be laden with more rules, but because there's a common thread holding everybody together. YOU decide what that thread is and the people that are interested in that will join. Almost every pirate I run into that is in a guild (and sitting sad and lonely looking for help) that asks for help, my first question is, "where are your guild-mates?" Strangely enough, when guild-mates aren't around and I or my guildies help out, that pirate wants to leave their guild and join mine.

Why? Because their guild won't do anything for them and is boring.

So, you want to have a successful guild--think about this post. Take it as help, not criticism.

[XieXie]

Very good point, I've noticed that myself. The reason I made Pax Romana is so everyone has power, and you can elect the leaders. (This isn't for my own benefeit... I have lost a few elections lol)

And its not tooting my own horn... its slightly jingling it

[Dr. Zeppers]

Excellent, I've been trying to hint along, slowly to somewhat these points exactly. Thanks for taking the time Bartholomew!

[Maximvs]

At first glance, I thought the post was going in the wrong direction... but - taking it the way Zep see it, I can see how the information is useful and thought I would contribute...

The Square and compass Guild had an excellent format of guides for its guild (it inspired me to Write our Code of Conduct on our Guild for a much better understanding of how members should portray themselves). The best part of the S&C Guild was his opening statement...

It was so good I couldn't have written anything better

Mission Statement

Guild Objectives

FUN: First and foremost, this is a game which we all play for the purpose of enjoyment - both paying and free accounts alike. If people are not having fun in this guild then it has lost its focus for existing. However, to have fun there must be a sense of fair play and order which ALL members must respect.

VIRTUE: Members should always conduct and display a high level of character, no matter what age or type of account. Members should act in such a way that other guilds and pirates look at them as inspirations on how to conduct themselves and treat others.

LOYALTY: A guild which doesn't fulfill the needs of its members cannot hope to keep them. A guild is nothing without its members; at the same time, the members have a responsibility to the guild. Those who cannot fulfill such a responsibility cannot be considered loyal.

its a powerful statement... its not just a st of rules - its the 'Pirate Code' which players should strive to in the game I believe (I then expanded this much more on our guild to give placement and guidelines on 'The Code of Conduct').

Even with the provided statement alone, true pirate players would get the meaning of what it takes to run a real guild... no easy task.

(Sorry, not feeling well, I'll try to post more at a later time)

[Bartholomew Foulsteel]

Thanks for your input all. Many good guilds grow large BECAUSE they are good guilds. Some guilds are good but very small (close friends and family guilds). Ultimately, a good guild FEELS good.

[AdmiralSavvy]

When I read French Assassins, I thought pretty much the same thing you did Bart. What a good Guildmaster should do, is to not worry so much about people not joining, because one guild cannot satisfy all.

Tip: Try to improve guild presentation. It will help in the long run.

For all you people looking for a guild, always ask these questions: Why should I join? What are the benefits? Try to be a more challenging guild hunter. Instead of those who are randomly joining guilds they know nothing about and ending up leaving the next hour. Now that can really take a toll on the Guildmaster.

The Guildmaster should have the guild experience to answer your questions, if not, he or she should really improve their guildmastering skills.

Being a GM for over 7 months, I've learned that running a guild can be like a roller-coster: ups and downs. Some people will stay, some will reject. The key word to the duty is patience.

Yes I have had my share of disappointments over, who seemed to be good members, leave the guild. Or asking friends if they wanted to join and they said "no thanks".



Maximvs made it very clear in the Heavy is the Head....An Example of Guild Politics thread.

And take note eveyone, like Rome, any major power can topple... it is the williness to act to save an empire that makes the difference before it is too late.

Meaning if you're serious (in this case) about your role as GM, consider all the factors...the reason the pirate won't want to join, how you are presenting your guild...or just the guild's setup.

Also, for all you Guildmasters out there, my recommendations are:

1: Do not try to force people to join. Ex. Go to Abassa with a big thought bubble over your head stating: "JOIN MY GUILD" Or persistently whispering to friends....begging them to join.

2: As Bart as stated before, be clear about rules but don't intimidate. People want to be in a guild where they feel comfortable. Not the kind that's "as soon as I log in...I hope the GM doesn't eject me" But at the same time people want a guild with order.

3: Most people in guilds have the tendancy to ask other members or the GM for help. It's just common guild behavior. What I noticed the most while reading "French Assassins" was the "Don't bother me for help, I'm trying to get rep" rule. People look up to the GM for help and in my opinion, saying "Don't bother me for help" is kinda wrong. (I'm being nice by saying kinda wrong) I'm not saying help people who beg and/or demand help, those kind don't deserve it.

4: The line between authorities has to be drawn somewhere. In most guilds, unless promoting people to officer is a main goal like the guild Pax Romana, don't promote new members to officer until you've seen fit to trust them in the guild. Some people who see guilds where the GM is promoting everyone, and knowing that promoting everyone IS NOT a main guild goal, can lead the person to believe that the GM is naively promoting people for the sake of feeling like a more authoritive guild. Where it can lead members to take advantage of the GM.



Those are just my tips from mistakes I've made in the past, hey, we all learn from our mistakes.

I really liked reading this thread Bart, I consider this a good guide for all those GMs having problems inviting people. And I hope that people don't find this as a "critic's corner" to the guilds less capable to get members.

~ Norries Savviness- Guildmaster of Partners In Crime

[Kat Sheffield]

Bart, you've already heard this above, but that was an excellent, insightful post. Hopefully it will help the people complaining about their floundering guilds redirect themselves towards success.

And the El Jefe and Exulted Pooba bit...priceless.

I think this post can serve as a great reference not only for the people trying to get a new guild up and running but also for the established GMs as well. Hopefully everyone can learn from what Bart has said and take what you can from it.

Nicely done!

[AdmiralSavvy]

Oh and, to me, this is a Sticky worthy thread.

[Swash]

i dont understand what u mean my guilds succesful even without ur rules u need to relize this doesnt work for every guild they made the title guildmaster so he can keep control of the guild and boss them around without officers he decides who stays and who doesnt without them leaving

[Bartholomew Foulsteel]

Do what you like Swashbuckler--just realize when you post about how the big guilds are taking all your prospects and that you can't seem to get a decent guild going YOU are inviting these comments.

Dude--I'm trying to help, but if everything's going the way you like it, then SUPER! Good for you.

[Dr. Zeppers]

Originally Posted by Swashbuckler

they made the title guildmaster so he can keep control of the guild and boss them around without officers

This is a rather naive perspective, that any mature pirate would reject immediately, at least in regards to the "boss them around" part.

[AdmiralSavvy]

Originally Posted by Swashbuckler

i dont understand what u mean my guilds succesful even without ur rules u need to relize this doesnt work for every guild they made the title guildmaster so he can keep control of the guild and boss them around without officers he decides who stays and who doesnt without them leaving

Swashbuckler, Bart is only trying to help, everyone who read French Assassins knows your guild is unsuccessful. I don't like seeing other guilds fail like this, when I recommended this thread, that was my way of helping.

[Bella]

In my short time in POTC (since Feb.) I have seen guilds come and go. In fact, I have seen the Wenches have ups and downs. The main goal (IMO) of a guild is to have a group of like minded people get together and enjoy the game.

Please don't get me wrong I am not calling ANYONE a jerk. But, most people will not join a guild if they feel their GM is powerhungry. I do not know of ANYONE who would join a guild where the GM wants to rule with an iron fist.

These people on here were just trying to help. Which I feel is more than they should. If a guild fails, all the GM has to do is look in the mirror to see why. Yes, that includes myself as a GM.

Like I said I am not calling anyone a jerk. But if it walks like a duck and ,quacks like a duck......

[Maximvs]

But if it walks like a duck and ,quacks like a duck......

...it just might turn into a Swawn (or thats the way my Mom always told me the story heh)

Ok, so in keeping reference to the thread in trying to provide direction on building a better Guild, the Dolls Guild which I co-founded with in-game friends soon realized that we needed more structure than just a 'free will' approach. Some players felt there was not enough help, others felt they were being asked to help too much, others actions were becoming questionable - and we needed to 'nip-it-in-the-bud'.

Of course, this is a game though - we wanted structure but not an authority approach (to the degree where everyone would feel paranoid about doing anything). That is why we wrote "The Code Of Conduct".

Some say its a bit of a read But - there is no question on the direction on the Guild and its objectives now. "The Code of Conduct" though was not written in a demanding state, simply because - well - we ARE pirates! It is written in a method that everyone in the Guild knows it has to be followed, yet have fun at the same time.

Yes, the "Code" does list consequences to those who are out-of-line - but not because of what the leader thinks - but for the Good Name of what we strive to make of The Dolls Guild be - a safe, enjoyable guild which one can respect themselves and be respected by others.

This Swash is what you need to concentrate on - it is not about just wanting to be a Leader - but to actually BE a leader. Leading a guild is about ALL that encompasses a guild; making decisions, helping others when needed, asking for help when required, looking for ideas and advice, making improvements and adjustments as time passes.

Should you want to continue the course of creating and building a guild, then you must adjust your requirements to have everyone understand what guidelines you want, but to also be sure as a leader those who follow you are respected and want to respect you in return for the leadership skills you show, not just make a list of what you don't want to do.

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With that said, I encourage others to continue their posts on Guild Leadership and examples of how they have had successes and overcome issues - with the understanding that they keep their posts on topic and not wander into unecessary demeaning statements.

Max

[dangerousden]

My Guild (and I use "MY" only because I founded it) was started by a few like minded people who migrated from another Pirate game Seafight. We were guild mates over there so it seemed sensible for us to join together here to and help each other out while we found our footings.

We were always about helping each other out, and we were always helping out others along the way. The guild just grew organically from there. Guildmates introduced their friends and so on. We too have had our falling outs, but I am pleased to say they are few.

I have not been as active as I would like recently, but the guild officers are more than capable of taking over in my absence. That is the reason I promoted them, and they are now proposing people to promote. I do not agree with making everyone an officer. I feel that people earn that status. When we think that a member has showed the loyalty, helpfulness, patience and friendliness that we require, then they usually gain that promotion. The other officers like to make a big deal of this. so that a new officer knows how they have gained this promotion.

On our website we have a hints and tips on how to get an officer promotion, but the main reason can be fairly vague. It is a "feel" that this one pirate will make a good officer. Anyone can be helpful and friendly, but that one little thing - maybe maturity, maybe going that one step further than someone else - will be the thing that makes the officers say "Yes - promotion".

A good guild tends to run itself is what I am trying to say. Get the right people as officers, and it makes the guildmasters job relatively easy.

A guild forum is great for airing views, and allows the other members to have their say. Our forum has been updated and amended many times thanks to feedback from the members.

Just my 2 cents worth on this subject, and a little waffling