War Sloop worth it?

[Edward Edgemenace]

Originally Posted by League

...hence, the question is, can you get 40,000 with a War Sloop first or can you get 20,000 with a non-war ship and then 20,000 with a War Galleon sooner?

That's a good question. Since the war sloop holds the same as the regular galleon, the plunder hauls will be equivalent. (So the first 20,000 is a tie.) The next 20,000 is much faster in the war galleon...about three times faster, because you never have to port, until full (mega hull points) and also consequently never lose that huge cargo. (When was the last time you saw a war galleon sink in regular sailing? They only sink in SvS.)

[Dan_OB]

Actually the Reg. galleon holds 11 while the war sloop holds 9. So maybe the best way to start your war fleet is to keep your reg. galleon and use it to get gold for the war galleon. from there, crew up and work Mariners Reef using the reg galleon as back up.

[CaptainGreenGene]

I use the War Galleon more then any other ship I own for plundering gold with or without a crew. When I sail alone I use a different strategy sinking ships then when I have a crew. Either way I seldom get hit and rarely sink (although I did manage to sink Sunday watching football and sailing at the same time, not recommended) I use my War Sloop for SVS only. It doesn't make sense to use it any other place so if your not interested in changing all your stats so they are best for SVS don't bother with the War Sloop, there will always be someone better/faster sinking you. Save the gold and use the Regular Galleon until you have enough gold for the War Galleon. It will be good practice learning to sail it in the long run anyway.

[League]

Am I the only one who remembers the thread started by Zeppers where Zeppers said the ships with less hold get better quality? I know it was kind of old and all, and might have been patched away, but I've never seen a point reach a different conclusion. The returns from all 3 war ships were generally the same as I recall.

That being said, let it also be said that I wouldn't really know what I'm talking about, having not tried it myself, but I do remember the thread.

[Edward Edgemenace]

Originally Posted by League

Am I the only one who remembers the thread started by Zeppers where Zeppers said the ships with less hold get better quality? I know it was kind of old and all, and might have been patched away, but I've never seen a point reach a different conclusion. The returns from all 3 war ships were generally the same as I recall.

That being said, let it also be said that I wouldn't really know what I'm talking about, having not tried it myself, but I do remember the thread.

Tht does not ring true for me. Average plunder on a war galleon as crew, for me, is just over 1,000 gold. Average plunder on a war frigate as crew, for me, is about 600 gold. Average plunder on a war sloop, for me, is about 450 gold.

[katarakyan]

i'd still go for the war frigate, but if ur lacking gold any ship is good sloop are good for their speed, galley's are best with cargo and war kinda like in between sloop and galley for speed and cargo but more firepower and also very expensive, go with ur instinct or what u want, then save for the war frigate

[Dan_OB]

Originally Posted by Edward Edgemenace

Tht does not ring true for me. Average plunder on a war galleon as crew, for me, is just over 1,000 gold. Average plunder on a war frigate as crew, for me, is about 600 gold. Average plunder on a war sloop, for me, is about 450 gold.

That matches up with my experience. League, could you be thinking of the Boss battle is suppose to be easier for smaller crews maybe?

[Dr. Zeppers]

Originally Posted by Dan_OB

Evasive maneuver capacities of the sloop maybe overstated by myself and others, more often its a case of being quick enough to be hard to hit and being a small target rather then any fancy moves to dodge cannonballs. In a sloop enemy fire often lands behind me or goes over me, in a galleon in similar circumstances it usually hits me. I believe that this is why sloops are so successful in SvS and galleons are usually salvage material. And I find that it does make a difference in fighting npc ships as well. I've used galleons successfully for solo sailing, but I didn't like it and can't recommend it. Plundering with a crew? Well thats a whole different story.

This as Edward eluded to is going to depend on the captain/sailor. When it comes to NPC ships (NOT SvS), studying your opponents tendencies, ways of doing battle, and then using that information, and your skills to attack them. I seldom NEED to make any "fancy moves", should not EVER need to make any "fancy moves" against NPC ships, SVS is a completely different subject, and most agree the Galleon for example, is not a good ship for SvS.

I do concur, each pirate should go with his/her own heart and choose the vessel that best suits their style/preferences.

Originally Posted by League

Am I the only one who remembers the thread started by Zeppers where Zeppers said the ships with less hold get better quality? I know it was kind of old and all, and might have been patched away, but I've never seen a point reach a different conclusion. The returns from all 3 war ships were generally the same as I recall.

That being said, let it also be said that I wouldn't really know what I'm talking about, having not tried it myself, but I do remember the thread.

Ok, now I do not remember such a post (does not mean I didnt), and my opinion on that has changed if I had made that post. The size of YOUR ship does not seem to have any control over what it is that you plunder. Now you may get more items which I think I may have eluded to in a prior post, but I do not know that value is any different in the long run. The size (level) of the enemy ship however does change the likelyhood of getting more valuable richs.

[Dan_OB]

Originally Posted by OFxZeppers

This as Edward eluded to is going to depend on the captain/sailor. When it comes to NPC ships (NOT SvS), studying your opponents tendencies, ways of doing battle, and then using that information, and your skills to attack them. I seldom NEED to make any "fancy moves", should not EVER need to make any "fancy moves" against NPC ships, SVS is a completely different subject, and most agree the Galleon for example, is not a good ship for SvS.

I do concur, each pirate should go with his/her own heart and choose the vessel that best suits their style/preferences.

I guess you missed this part:

" ...more often its a case of being quick enough to be hard to hit and being a small target rather then any fancy moves to dodge cannonballs."

In essense what I'm saying is that: All things being equal, the sloop being smaller, faster and quicker is less likely to get hit then a galleon. These are inherent attributes of the two ships and have nothing to do with the captain or anything else.

You're quite right, knowing your enemy is important regardless of ship type.

[League]

I think that post, which does exist in memory (yet, if it is not in existance, my mind must be one heck of a crazy dimension) is probably irrelevant, since they did mention in updates increasing the gold gotten from endeavors and all---so I'll concur, not that I know what it means to concur.

[Edward Edgemenace]

Originally Posted by Dan_OB

I guess you missed this part:

" ...more often its a case of being quick enough to be hard to hit and being a small target rather then any fancy moves to dodge cannonballs."

In essense what I'm saying is that: All things being equal, the sloop being smaller, faster and quicker is less likely to get hit then a galleon. These are inherent attributes of the two ships and have nothing to do with the captain or anything else.

You're quite right, knowing your enemy is important regardless of ship type.

What I've noticed, is that for a given pirate captain, war sloops are no harder nor easier for NPC ships to hit, than a war galleon. The NPC ships seem to make an attack and the game-server calculates their ship level vs. the pirate captain's level, then animates cannonballs to either hit or miss, based on that calculation.

The pirate ship's direction and speed seem to affect that calculation, but not the pirate ship type (from what I've seen.)

[mlratto]

I mostly sail solo and to be honest am able to fill the cargo hold in my war galleon quickly against high level ships without taking much if any damage. but i also have a ton of experience sailing which has a great deal to do with my success. that said, for me, i don't see much of an advantage the war sloop has over the galleon.

if you are working on your first pirate and are still getting your sea legs then yes i think a war sloop is an excellent choice. the extra speed and manuverability will certainly help you out of sticky situations.

and as edward stated...in SvS the war sloop is the preferred ship...especially with a crew.

[jason davy]

Personally, I'd try to save for a bigger ship first. A war sloop is certainly a must-have, but it'll be much easier to get a war sloop later than a war gal or frig later. =]

[Dan_OB]

Originally Posted by Edward Edgemenace

What I've noticed, is that for a given pirate captain, war sloops are no harder nor easier for NPC ships to hit, than a war galleon. The NPC ships seem to make an attack and the game-server calculates their ship level vs. the pirate captain's level, then animates cannonballs to either hit or miss, based on that calculation.

The pirate ship's direction and speed seem to affect that calculation, but not the pirate ship type (from what I've seen.)

Not being privy to the code, I don't know what the algorithm is for NPC ships firing accuracy is, but I suspect that it is a lot simpler then that. I agree that the ship type probably doesn't play in to it, but I also doubt that player level plays in to it. I find it is more likely that the two ships relative position and distance are the key factors and maybe a handicap calibrated according to the enemies lvl. From what I've observed the target area a ship offers is a factor.


I think our different views on this may have to do with different sailing styles. If you sail in a manner similar to the method discribed in your superlative guide Sailing by COMPASS the sloops advantages will rarely if ever come in to play so you will understandably shrug your shoulders and say "why bother with a sloop?"

If you sail like I like to do, getting up close behind the enemy and hitting them with alternating broadsides as fast as you can you will see the advantages of a sloop real quick, especially if you have to sail along side the ship to get in position behind them. In the sloop the cannon fire and broadsides often fly over or land behind and sometimes can be avoided with a hard turn.

If you try this method with a galleon things can get ugly fast. First almost everything hits you, nothing flies over you and little behind you, the misses are few (target area?). But the worst part is you'll have a very hard time getting into position because you can 't make sharp turns and you don't have the speed. For the same reasons you'll have a hard time maintaining your position behind the enemy ship.

[Edward Edgemenace]

Very interesting. You are very correct, when you say I did not consider that driving style. I use that method on new pirates for sailing level 1-5 with some degree of success, but always go back to distance methods as the new pirate graduates to better ships. I'm not sure I ever consciously acknowledged that that method even works for high level enemy ships. You can't actually sink a predator or a corsair that way, can you? When I tried it just now, the first two volleys missed due to my windcatcher, but when I was hit, went to jail (from that one stray shot.) Maybe I've forgotten entirely how to drive a sloop (but I doubt it, as that is almost exclusively what I use when I sail in SvS.)

You point out something very, very valid. If your driving style is the up-close to the enemy aft style, a sloop can help a great deal. By sailing level 15, I assume most people have switched to more effective methods. So, unless they are vehement about that aft-driving style, most people will build their war fleet much faster, by starting with the war galleon. (That was the question in the original post, right?)