Make Light Sloops more targetable in pvp...

[Edward Edgemenace]

Not only throughout history, but recently, too, terrorists and pirates use tiny ships to get the job done.

The modern navy does not have purchase requests for large ships. They are huge targets, slow to maneuver and very expensive. Rowboats, however, can have bombs of every imaginable size and type on board.

I have found aiming at light sloops with cannon to be IDENTICAL in pve and pvp. Broadsides targetting for no apparent reason was broken horrifically for the whole game, when SvS was released. Lower range, lower damage, slower shot velocity, broken animation (e.g. shots landing 8 boat lengths BEHIND a light galleon count as hits - but only in SvS) yet inexplicably, manual cannons were made more powerful.

In real life, ramming speed would deal a LOT more damage. Not like ten times more, but about a hundred times more damage than the game does. A small terrorist speed boat hitting the side of a USN battleship (Yemen? Oman?) a couple years ago did a historic amount of damage. But not because the attack was original, but instead, because the USN didn't/couldn't shoot it as it got too close. (Presumably, it was because of spies on the USN ship, allowing the speed boat to get so close.)

The same tiny boat vs. huge boat is mentioned in the Old Testament. It is not a new problem. Just a bit more exaggerated in real life, as opposed to this game where you actually can somehow hit them.

Now when my light sloop sinks, it usually is from someone cheating, after I've hit them a dozen or more times and they take no damage. They will turn and fire one or two thunderbolts and my ship is gone. As far as I know, my light sloop has never been hit by broadsides (in pve or pvp.)

[BadBones X]

I'm sorry but those of you claiming there is no difference are simply wrong, I can sink an NPC Light Sloop with my broadsides with a single volley time and time again, as long as they are not right next to me.

Regardless of how far away it is in PVP (in range), you will be lucky to hit it with 1 or 2 cannon balls out of a volley from a War Frigate or even War Galleon. It could be standing still sniping at targets and you still have a very high chance of missing it all together. Don't forget either that those 2 cannon balls that DO hit only damage it for something in the neighborhood of 34 points of damage each with no previous damage on the ship. That doesn't even take 1/4 off the total health of the ship, as opposed to a single broadside volley against any other ship in the game which does massive amounts of damage.

In PVE (as well as PVP) distance DOES and SHOULD matter when it comes to using Broadsides against smaller ships. The further away while staying in range the better (assuming no change in speed/course of the target). Unfortunately, in pvp as opposed to pve...the shots just don't hit.

[Edward Edgemenace]

Is that your primary complaint? But, computer ships always go in one direction. Pirate players almost always avoid incoming shots by twisting and going backwards. NPC ships can't hit me when I do that - pirate players can't hit me with their broadsides either. No magic to it - I'm sure most high level sailors must do the same in this game. On larger ships, it makes much less difference. On a light sloop, I can dodge between two cannonballs, if I'm pointing at the boat that is shooting.

Have you tried rotating your camera view to see just where your cannonballs are going? For most broadsides aiming/targeting, nothing beats the compass. But for small targets (ahem, like the light sloop) you have to aim more accurately than you can with only the compass. Which in turn, means you have to have direct visual cues to line up on and practice on. Not only is it weird to get used to using right-mouse while sailing, you also have to re-learn how to aim.

I agree that all sailing aspects SHOULD be the same in PVE and PVP. I'm just not convinced that "broadsides targeting" is actually different. The disparity you are seeing could be due to the fact that NPC ships always go forward, never stopped, never going backwards.

OK, re-reading what you actually said, instead of what I thought you said, I have to apologize and agree completely. Broadsides targeting in PVP is different than it is in PVE, but should not be.

[CaptainGreeenee]

i do the rotating camera view thing all the time, and i can still never shoot those pesky things!! i wonder if they could make it that for some ships, you dont even need ramming speed to ram them, cause in reality a war frigate even touching a light sloop would cause it to capsize completely, get sucked underwater from the turbulence, and smashing it into little toothpicks for the war frigates crew to use to clean their teeth.

[Edward Edgemenace]

Originally Posted by CaptainGreeenee

i do the rotating camera view thing all the time, and i can still never shoot those pesky things!! i wonder if they could make it that for some ships, you dont even need ramming speed to ram them, cause in reality a war frigate even touching a light sloop would cause it to capsize completely, get sucked underwater from the turbulence, and smashing it into little toothpicks for the war frigates crew to use to clean their teeth.

That much, they have in the game already. Use a light sloop to ram something? 150 damage in pve, 70 damage in svs. But only if you hit exactly mid-ship on the target SvS ship (otherwise scored as a complete miss.)

Use a war frigate to ram? 1,800 damage (maybe more now in svs.) Only have to come within 1/2 mile of where the light sloop is, for it to score as a hit.

I don't know anyone with rank 5 ramming speed. My light sloop has only 2200 hull, though. So a war frigate passing eight to ten boat lengths behind me, yes, will cause me to drop to very-low red level, or sink if I'd been hit by a stray cannonball first.

[Harukantos]

Personally, I can own any man who comes up on a light sloop. But, it gets annoying, and, we can't even hit the ships hardly anymore, any light ships that is. Even outside of Ship PvP I can hardly hit light ships with broadsides. May as well, make Ramming speed skills for War ships into Extra speed.

[davy redflint]

i like the lite sloop being maxed out it fun to go take down large ship with, in svs i hav no trouble sinkin them, use ur fury anf lightin to take them out.

[Captain Seaford]

Yeah... well, I got my war frigate totally owned by a light sloop once.

[CrimsonRabbit]

I agree that for some reason, the light sloops seem to be harder to hit with broadsides in SvS. I've also noted that my war sloop will often get hit from broadsides being fired from someone I'm directly (perpendicular) behind and a couple of ship lengths back. No way a broadside should be able to hit me...but they do. Really ticks me off. The only thing that bothers me with the light sloops is that they won't stick around for a battle. They're the first ones I'll go after, but as soon as they're threatened they run and hide...and they're too quick to catch.

On that note, does anyone know why my War Sloop is the slowest ship on the sea? I even have 5 marks in the Wind Catcher, yet can't keep up with any ship when they turn to run away...that is totally annoying.

[Edward Edgemenace]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRabbit

I agree that for some reason, the light sloops seem to be harder to hit with broadsides in SvS. I've also noted that my war sloop will often get hit from broadsides being fired from someone I'm directly (perpendicular) behind and a couple of ship lengths back. No way a broadside should be able to hit me...but they do. Really ticks me off. The only thing that bothers me with the light sloops is that they won't stick around for a battle. They're the first ones I'll go after, but as soon as they're threatened they run and hide...and they're too quick to catch.

On that note, does anyone know why my War Sloop is the slowest ship on the sea? I even have 5 marks in the Wind Catcher, yet can't keep up with any ship when they turn to run away...that is totally annoying.

Those things you describe happen to me as well.

Backwards firing broadsides bite. They POSSIBLY could be due to lag (but because I only ever see it coming from ships that are already glitched out, I doubt it.)

Windcatcher seems to have no effect now, in PvE or PvP. I wasn't sure, when they released PvP sailing, but I'm convinced now. If you get close enough to hear an enemy do a broadsides, you can look them up in DisneyXD - Community - Player Channel - Directory - Search by pirate name - Open - then switch to see their sailing skill points. If they have five points on full sail (previously a useless skill past rank 1) and zero on windcatcher (previously a very useful skill, both at at rank 1 and especially at rank 5) then it is a safe bet, that they know a programmer whom you don't.

My light sloop runs after it has been hit once, because it went from 100% to 15% hull, from your one hit.

[CrimsonRabbit]

Originally Posted by Edward Edgemenace

Backwards firing broadsides bite. They POSSIBLY could be due to lag (but because I only ever see it coming from ships that are already glitched out, I doubt it.)

I don't know if I can contribute this to lag...I'll actually see the cannon-balls shooting directly out the side of the opposing ship, nowhere near mine, but I'll still take damage. This needs to be fixed...especially if it's happening to more than just me.

As shown in the beautiful diagram below....there should be NO WAY for an enemy (dark purple) to hit me (light purple) with its right broadsides (shown in red)...but they DO!!!

Direction of boat travel shown by arrows....both ships doing clockwise rotation.
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~~~~~~~~~~OO~O~~~~~~~~~~
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[BadBones X]

You guys have gotten completely off topic. This thread is about the inability to hit light sloops with broadsides in SvS and their over armored hulls when compared to War class vessels.

Stay on topic please.

Furthermore, the outrageous claims being made by those who are proponents of using light sloops in SvS such as:

"My light sloop runs after it has been hit once, because it went from 100% to 15% hull, from your one hit." (only if a War Frigate rammed you as a single shot of Thunderbolt with 5 pts in it does about 34 damage in SvS)

and

"Use a war frigate to ram? 1,800 damage (maybe more now in svs.) Only have to come within 1/2 mile of where the light sloop is, for it to score as a hit." (the only explanation for this would be lag)

are completely ludicrous and do not constitute valid arguments. IMHO this is an important matter for SvS to succeed in this game. I personally get so ****ed when my War Frigate gets sunk by a Light Sloop that I log off for the day; especially in an extended fight when I start with no damage at all and lose to a light sloop that I can barely get to half hull. It is simply ludicrous and needs to be fixed.

For those of you wanting to espouse the realities of smaller ships fighting larger ships in real life, consider this...

A hole the size of a cannon ball in a single hull ship (think row boat) as small as a light sloop would literally sink the ship as it would be impossible for even a full (3 man) crew to bail out the water as fast as it would be coming through the hole. So if you really want to go down that "...but in reality" road, a single hit would sink a light sloop.

[CrimsonRabbit]

On topic:

Quit your whining and learn to shoot better.

[Captain Del]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRabbit

On topic:

Quit your whining and learn to shoot better.

He can't hit the light sloop because he has "bad aim", but only because light slopps are too small to hit! When firing at a light slopp when you are sailing a War Frigate, half or more of the cannonballs from your broadsides miss, even if the light sloop has a level 1 captain with no experience and is standing completely still. Can you believe trying to hit it when it has a level 40 captain with a ton of SvS experience using full sail and ramming speed? It is completly unfair to people who spent hours on hours trying to buy a War Frigate for SvS and other reasons, only to be sunk by a light sloop which somebody bought with gold from behind the couch. Now, i hope you guys understand.

- Captain Del Darkskull

[BadBones X]

Originally Posted by CrimsonRabbit

On topic:

Quit your whining and learn to shoot better.

How does more than half my broadside rounds missing a light sloop while some of the rounds hit in any way constitute an aiming problem on my part. Read the rest of the posts in this thread if you want to participate in this conversation.