Missnaming ships?

[Eliza Creststeel]

Perhaps, I should have given a more detailed response. This topic has obviously brought out some passion in some. And that passion, though well-intended, may be missing the point.

First, I personally wouldn't mind a more realistic basis for the vessels being used. But, as has been stated - they would become unweildy and too complicated for many non-gaming PCs to handle with all their details. Who wouldn't love to be able to go below decks? Etc. However, many players don't have the big 1g monster video card

But, that does not mean that the hull designs and so forth could not have had more historical believeablity. To address that argument though, I would say this. If the ships were more realistic that would look a lot more alike. The current configurations are very easy to discern. 'That's a sloop, that's a galleon'. You might be able to tell a Brigandine from a Clipper or a Sloop of War, etc. but many would not.

The basis for the current ship classes is more about elementary elements (guns, cargo or speed) than actual hull types. Any more options begin to muddy the waters. Though a few in between would not be bad (Ex. Clipper - some cargo, some speed or a Brigandine - some guns, some speed, etc.) The more you add, and the more they look the same - the more difficult it might be for younger players and of course a much larger work load for programmers.

I love the world of POTCO, but I know its not a real version of the late 1600's to early 1700's. Bruckheimer's production crews did a fine job of making a nicer, cleaner looking Caribbean from that time but even that was too much for Disney Online and our version is even more sterile, etc. I take the ships as part of that.

[Dan_OB]

Considering this is a game where cutlasses look like rapiers (or some other longer straighter sword), daggers are a little longer then Roman short swords, and flintlock pistols perform and sound like semi-automatics when you load them, I'm surprised at how accurately the ships are done in POTCO. Their relative performance is very much like their historical counterparts. Also the ships are all types that could be found in the Caribbean in the time period. The sloops look like historical Sloops and the Galleons (though exaggerated) look like historical galleons. Awhile back I tried to find a picture of ship that looks like the game's frigate and couldn't find anything close. It doesn't look like a frigate but it doesn't look like a galleon either. So it is probably a made up ship, but it looks really cool.

One thing to consider is that playability is going to trump accuracy every time in this game. I think that the developers wanted the ships to be easy to tell apart at a distance even in low graphics mode. This may explain why the frigate looks as it does. A realistic frigate may have looked too much like a sloop.

I also believe that the designers never intended these ships to be replicas of the ships they are named for but rather to be broad representatives of different ship types. For example sloops are representative of all types of ships that are built to be fast and maneuverable above all else.

By the same token all Ship-of-the-line means in this game is a really big, bad, warship. As long as these ships add new challenges to the game I don't care what they call them. They can call them minnow class ships if they want.

Remember this game is basically an interactive cartoon based on a fantasy adventure movie which was based on an amusement park ride, so put your suspension of disbelief in high gear.

EDIt: Eliza posted as I was writing this. Let me just say then, "What Eliza said!"

[Captain Whale]

Ahoy Nuju,

How many times do we have to keep having this conversation about ship types/names Nuju? You bring this up almost every month or so without fail. The ships are fun to play and each one is different enough so you can identify them easily. As you yourself stated Pirates of the burning seas has more accurate ships. Go play that game if that is what you want (sounds like you already are).

This is a Fantasy game mate and arguing over what the developers "Could" have done is a waste of time. I certainly don't want them to go back and redo everything. I don't know why you feel the need to keep pounding away at this topic over and over again. I respect your position but it seems like you just want to stir up trouble with Disney and the game here.

Like Captain C Ray said - yeah we get your position ok? It ain't gonna happen in this game ok? So either accept it or play something else.

Captain Whale

[Dockwrecker The Privateer]

Originally Posted by Dan_OB

By the same token all Ship-of-the-line means in this game is a really big, bad, warship. As long as these ships add new challenges to the game I don't care what they call them. They can call them minnow class ships if they want.

Eliza posted as I was writing this. Let me just say then, "What Eliza said!"

I'm not sure I would call the current ship of the line in game a impressive warship by its guncount,but if D wants to make a better one:When the time comes around again for a new giant ship just make it a 106 gun 'Heavy' or 'first rate' ship-of-the-line.Now that Nuju thinks this new ship as a frigate I say it could be a new class of frigate:the Heavy Frigate ,like the French heavy frigate Acheron from 'Master and Commander'.Not much has to be done to fix up the new SotL though:Just add cannon decks and it would be a better pass off in the near future,but leave the expedition as it is.If anyone was wondering I am listening to 'both sides' here,there could more civilness I think as well,unless I'm taking this the wrong way.

[Dan_OB]

Originally Posted by Dockwrecker The Privateer

I'm not sure I would call the current ship of the line in game a impressive warship by its guncount,but if D wants to make a better one:When the time comes around again for a new giant ship just make it a 106 gun 'Heavy' or 'first rate' ship-of-the-line.Now that Nuju thinks this new ship as a frigate I say it could be a new class of frigate:the Heavy Frigate ,like the French heavy frigate Acheron from 'Master and Commander'.Not much has to be done to fix up the new SotL though:Just add cannon decks and it would be a better pass off in the near future,but leave the expedition as it is.If anyone was wondering I am listening to 'both sides' here,there could more civilness I think as well,unless I'm taking this the wrong way.

First no incivility was intended, but I can see where one might interpret it as meaner spirited then intended. I should have put a smilie in there. Sorry for any offence.

My only concern with the using of "Ship of the Line" is that it gives Disney nowhere to go if they want to put out an even bigger ship in the future. Once you have "Ship of the Line" how can you go up? Heavy frigate or Indiaman would probably be better or maybe something like cruiser. which is kind of what you said, I think. But that can be worked around when and if need be.

[kageroumaru]

why not have your own ships made from lego... lol... well you know wat i mean.. just build your own... much easier and more fun

[Eliza Creststeel]

Ship of the Line was the classification of heavy warship, somewhat generic.

"A ship-of-the-line was a type of naval warship constructed from the 17th century through the mid-19th century, to take part in the naval tactic known as the line of battle, in which two columns of opposing warships would maneuver to bring the greatest weight of broadside guns to bear. Since these engagements were almost invariably won by the heaviest ships carrying the most powerful guns, the natural progression was to build sailing vessels that were the largest and most powerful of their time.

In the 17th century fleets could consist of almost a hundred ships of various sizes, but by the middle of the 18th century, ship-of-the-line design had settled on a few standard types: older two-deckers (i.e., with two complete decks of guns firing through side ports) of 50 guns (which were too weak for the battle-line but could be used to escort convoys), two-deckers of between 64 and 90 guns which formed the main part of the fleet, and larger three- or even four-deckers with 98 to 140 guns which were used as admirals' command ships."

"In naval warfare, the line of battle is a tactic in which the ships of the fleet form a line end to end. " - Both quotes from Wikipedia

So, they can create other vessels beyond the current set without worry. A ship of the line could be of varying sizes.

[Dockwrecker The Privateer]

Originally Posted by Dan_OB

First no incivility was intended, but I can see where one might interpret it as meaner spirited then intended. I should have put a smilie in there. Sorry for any offence.

My only concern with the using of "Ship of the Line" is that it gives Disney nowhere to go if they want to put out an even bigger ship in the future. Once you have "Ship of the Line" how can you go up? Heavy frigate or Indiaman would probably be better or maybe something like cruiser. which is kind of what you said, I think. But that can be worked around when and if need be.

I was probably a little over hyped over the subject,you actually have some of the topic's best points,especially where Disney is aiming things,I didn't quite mean ye as much perhaps for being uncivil,my apologies Dan.

Eliza now has an excellent post about mutiple ship-of-the-line types,a lot of it I wasn't aware of,however it would likely best to rate them in the classic first ,second ,third and fourth gun count classes rather than Eliza's idea of different kinds of SotLs having the same title.A bit like light,standard,and war ships.(Perhaps not though ,we shall see how this goes,I don't believe Disney will make another ship of the line hull in the foreseeable future.Perhaps they will vary sizes and gun counts of the current SotL hull when they decide to make more from it.)But I would like to see ships sizes and appearences difer in the upcoming time.

[Midhav]

Eliza, as usual your points are valid and true. Thats basicaaly what I concentrated on here, saying that Disney needs to make this game more realistic, but not so complicated as Del pointed out would hurt kids who play this game.
Dan, the game needs to be more than just much of an interactive cartoon as you pointed out it is, and it should also be more realistic ( I'll keep saying that )
While the ships need to be more realistic, its true what Dan said, that they need to differ with low graphics being around. I also believe that ship customization should not only decorate ships but also change the Hull, with various bends, compressions, lengths, etc.

[kageroumaru]

lets have FULL customizatoin... i mean imagine combining the hull of a... frigate, with the speed of a sloop and the armour of a galleon.. ya know? i mean you yourself build EVERYTHING from scratch

[Edward Edgemenace]

For those of you interested in a better summary of ships and how they were in this era (and how they evolved later) try reading this concise summary. (Thank you Wikipedia.)

http://www.in-arch.net/Sqrigg/squrig.html

[Angel Seafish]

I really don't care about what a ship is called, just the design. It is just a minor flaw, but alot of people (like myself) just really could care less. How come when you hit an enemy they don't get cut or bruised? How come when you die or an enemy dies, they put away their weapons right before? This game is pure fiction based off a movie. I don't see any real island named Rumrunner's Isle. I haven't seen a enemy get burned to death without any burn marks. Point is, there are more things that are completely fake in this game, but the ship name deal, real ship types and names. Yes Disney could have done the real names but, people don't really care. However I do get your point.