"Jumping" in PvP

[Maximvs]

Originally Posted by Edward

As I said to Swash, try it in real life. Set up a baseball on your son's t-ball stand near an outdoor stair, climb up 3-10 steps then jump at it and see if you can hit the baseball at all.

Though I would conclue that in RL this style of fighting is nearly impossible - I believe sticking to the Game Mechanics should be the focus here.

This discussion is mixing "game mechanics" with "real life" - which has taken this thread off on a new direction... many things in the game are non-realistic - so jumping in PvP is no different.

Do I like jumpers? No - But I won't call jumping a glitch - a glitch is something that is intentionaly broken (like the invincibiltiy door glitch) - but jumping is just jumping I DO believe that jumping in the game should be shortened / lowered - but besides that - its real enough.

As it is - since this topic is quiet heated and required three cleanups already - if the points to just the game cannot be made the thread will need to be retired. Heated debate is good by me - just keep focused on topic and leave "real life" out of the conversation (since it isnt a proper comparison to game functionalty anyway).

[Aodhamair]

hi. I have the same feelings about the jumping in pvp & i do not do pvp anymore becasue of it. I did take some "lessons" from a friend who jumps to help me understand it. They see it as a skill & art form & it is complicated. If you like, we can arrange to meet & i can tell you what i learned. Amanda o'mally. level 37, The Elite Few.

[jason davy]

I've seen several times that if you enter a lookout, you get what you get, etc etc etc. To clarify, I don't do lookouts. If I get an invite, I'll sometimes accept, and if someone in-game asks if I want to PvP, I'll often accept. My general point about the whole issue is this: if you are a jumper, jump with other jumpers for crying out loud. But when you get in a match where the other player OBVIOUSLY doesn't know how to jump or refuses to, it's disrespectful to continue jumping, ESPECIALLY when the non-jumper asks you to stop. I'll use the same response that was used above: if you're in PvP, be a man (or a woman) and fight fairly, and win or lose, make it fun for both players. And if a fair fight includes jumping (this means BOTH players are jumping) then by all means jump. But if you don't even have enough decency to respect another player, then just don't play.

Also, I like Edward's example about jumping and trying to hit the t-ball. Very true.

[Cheleszoo]

Originally Posted by jason davy

To clarify, I don't do lookouts. If I get an invite, I'll sometimes accept, and if someone in-game asks if I want to PvP, I'll often accept.

Simply don't accept random invites. Unless it's a PVP that you set up with someone, with the terms you like, you are just taking your chances, it's that simple. Ultimately the type of PVP you want can be controlled by you.

I DO agree with a lot of the points you made, that if you ask a jumper to stop that they should. I have been in PVPs with Jumpers where i have had an issue with something and asked them to hold for a sec and they do and ones that they don't. I've had the ones where i've been jumped by a crew (3 on 1) and in those cases i just log unless they agree to one on one (or one at a time).

I found the mayhems to be a lot of fun for both jumpers and hackers if they are big enough. (like 8 ppl in them)

Oh and as a PS for those shooting for the leaderboard - Unless Disney recently changed it (like with the new updates). All those pirates you see on the PVP Leaderboards, they are there because they LOST. I tested that theory out by PVPing with a friend where we agreed on who was going to win every match and who was going to lose. Guess which one was on top of the leaderboard the next day - Why the loser of course.

Chele

[jason davy]

Originally Posted by Cheleszoo

I DO agree with a lot of the points you made, that if you ask a jumper to stop that they should. I have been in PVPs with Jumpers where i have had an issue with something and asked them to hold for a sec and they do and ones that they don't. I've had the ones where i've been jumped by a crew (3 on 1) and in those cases i just log unless they agree to one on one (or one at a time).

I found the mayhems to be a lot of fun for both jumpers and hackers if they are big enough. (like 8 ppl in them)

Guess which one was on top of the leaderboard the next day - Why the loser of course.

Chele

Like you, I have met jumpers who will agree to not jump if I ask them, and I gain a lot of respect for those people. But also, like you, theres always those who ignore you or those who gang up on you, and in those cases I sometimes log but I usually just stand still and flip my coin.

I've never been in that big of a mayhem, but it does sound like fun!

And thats very interesting about the leaderboards... VERY interesting... lol

[Rackat]

I don't jump. But then again, I don't PvP either.

[Salty McSeas]

I agree, it's kind of silly that Pirates would jump around like rabbits - or ninjas - not very piratey if you ask me. Stand your ground and fight like a man.

[Captain Del]

Alright, alright, alright, I want to get my 2 cents into this.

Back when I was a younger pirate, not very well associated with POTCO, I believed that jumping was completely unfair, and sometimes even cheating. But after some time, I began to realize jumping was not much cheating, but a strategy. Yes, I understand to some "non-jumpers" that Jumping may be considered cheating. But you must remember that things are considered cheating are

1) Glitching
2) Hacking
3) Macros

And so on, and so on. Now, let us run through that list and see if Jumping falls under any of that.

1) Glitching.
Jumping is completely based off of the PLAYER, not the GAME (well, besides the controls, for that matter.) A glitch is something that had existed within the game, yet jumping was BROUGHT INTO THE GAME by the PLAYERS. Therefore, you cannot fairly call jumping a glitch.

2) Hacking
Hacking is usually something that disrupts a program by using a computer to hack into said program using some method. While hacking is brought up by the players of the game, jumping does not in anyway effect the overall game. Do you have to use a special program to jump in POTCO? No. Do you have to use ANY hacking methods? No. Jumping is brought into the game by the GAMES OWN CONTROLS. Therefore, jumping is not hacking either.

3) Macros
Basically, same as hacking. The only way you can jump is through the controls, not a third person program.

So, I believe we have established that Jumping is not cheating. But I'm going to bring up a little more evidence why jumping is not cheating.

Remember the thread that said running away in SvS was cheating? Well, as you remember, running away was simply established as a TACTIC, not cheating. Jumping is ALSO a tactic/strategy. If jumping does not fall under the category of cheating, then just like running away in SvS, it should be established as a tactic/strategy.

[Raikel]

You know, back in my prime, I would jump, and the only time I'd ask for no jumping is when I had a very bad lag. To me, if you can't stand people jumping, and just complain, best just chat with friends and level. Sure, PvP is fun, but it isn't every single thing that you can do.

[jason davy]

Originally Posted by Raikel

You know, back in my prime, I would jump, and the only time I'd ask for no jumping is when I had a very bad lag. To me, if you can't stand people jumping, and just complain, best just chat with friends and level. Sure, PvP is fun, but it isn't every single thing that you can do.

Of course, just because we don't HAVE to PvP doesn't mean we don't want to. And if people can ask for "blades no tonics" games, then I certainly think we have the right to ask for "no jumping" games. It's disrespectful and inconsiderate to suggest that if we don't want to deal with jumping, then we just shouldn't PvP. And the only reason we "complain" is that a good number of people insist we agree to their terms (ie, blades no tonics) but when the issue of jumping comes into play, the jumpers get all defensive, claiming jumping is "a skill" and can be used regardless. Welp, wither and siege charge are skills too, so I'll consider that next time I encounter a jumper.

[Edward Edgemenace]

Jumping certainly is glitching: the exploitation of a known software defect in the game.

There is no excuse for weapons not being put away while in the air. There is no excuse for attacks being allowed while in the air. There certainly is no excuse for full-damage attacks.

It is a defect in the game which very clearly makes PvP one of the least likable areas of POTCO.

Cheating is using exploits against other pirates. Jumping (particularly non-stop) is cheating.

[MacIronhawk]

Originally Posted by Edward Edgemenace

Jumping certainly is glitching: the exploitation of a known software defect in the game.

There is no excuse for weapons not being put away while in the air. There is no excuse for attacks being allowed while in the air. There certainly is no excuse for full-damage attacks.

It is a defect in the game which very clearly makes PvP one of the least likable areas of POTCO.

Cheating is using exploits against other pirates. Jumping (particularly non-stop) is cheating.

If the POTCO staff wanted to use pychics in the game I'm sure they would have.

I don't like jumpers but I don't think jumping and using a weapon at the same time is a glitch. There's no proof that it is in fact a glitch. If it was I'm sure Disney would have fixed it by now.

But I do think that we shouldn't be allowed to jump in PVP.

[jason davy]

Originally Posted by MacIronhawk

If the POTCO staff wanted to use physics in the game I'm sure they would have.

I don't like jumpers but I don't think jumping and using a weapon at the same time is a glitch. There's no proof that it is in fact a glitch. If it was I'm sure Disney would have fixed it by now.

But I do think that we shouldn't be allowed to jump in PVP.

I'd just like to note that there are plenty of game-hindering glitches that Disney hasn't bothered to fix. With that said, I don't believe jumping with weapons is a glitch so much as a severe defect in the game that ABSOLUTELY needs fixing. Actually... now that I think about it, is a "severe defect" and a glitch the same thing? Hmm... thought provoking eh?

[Jacqueline]

I don't think jumping is cheating. I mean, if your opponent is going to attack you, I would get out of the way--- it's common sense.

A PvP match shouldn't be based on the strength of your weapons or health of your pirate. It should be based on the skill of the player.

Jumpers are annoying-- and that's the point. They're supposed to frustrate you.
A frustrated players could be easier to defeat than an player that is not frustrated.

[jason davy]

Originally Posted by Jacqueline

I don't think jumping is cheating. I mean, if your opponent is going to attack you, I would get out of the way--- it's common sense.

A PvP match shouldn't be based on the strength of your weapons or health of your pirate. It should be based on the skill of the player.

Jumpers are annoying-- and that's the point. They're supposed to frustrate you.
A frustrated players could be easier to defeat than an player that is not frustrated.

Jumping is not used to be frustrating, nor is it used only to "get out of the way." This tactic is used by those who care about WINNING. Not about fun, not about fairness, not about respect. Just winning. When a tactic is unfair to other players, it ceases to be simply a tactic and becomes cheating.