Invasions skewing the rankings?

[Basil Dreadflint]

I wonder if the invasions are going to cause problems for a lot of the pirates?

Ever since the introduction of invasions to the game, I have noticed that a lot of people tend to "put out the call" when an invasion is announced. This means that a lot of people hurry to log in, and they are only playing during the invasions.

Also, I have been watching the amount of rep being earned during these invasions.

Here is what I am seeing.

It is quite possible to earn 3K to 5K or even 6K of reputation during an invasion. If you plan and schedule, you can sometimes make 3 invasions per day, and easily earn 10K in rep in a day. This rep is like earning Quest rep. It doesn't help with any skills or weapons.

I have heard people in chat discussing the amount of rep they are earning. One person yesterday said they had moved from level 32 to level 34 just because of invasions. I'm sure that there are much lower level pirates who are moving up even faster.

Here is the problem with this:
If you move up in Notoriety, and can move just a few levels basically with 'free' rep, it is going to unbalance your skill set and make it much harder to ever increase your weapons and skills.

A normal level 34 would be expected to have certain skills. Cutlass, pistol, Doll, etc., would be at certain levels comparable to the enemies that a level 34 pirate would be expected to defeat. With the amount of rep being earned during invasions, and a lot of people only playing during the invasions, it is quite possible that there will be a bunch of level 34 pirates who only have the skills of, what used to be, level 24 or 25 pirates.

Don't get me wrong. I think the invasions are the best addition to the game since they brought back the Boss Battle.

I just am seeing a potential problem with the way players are approaching the game since the invasions were introduced. Too many invasions, and too much rep from them, can actually be a bad thing for a 'growing' pirate.

[ex8404]

Wow... I never really looked at it that way. It makes a lot of sense Basil.

I know that one of my Live server pirates and my Test pirate have skewed weapons because at level 20 I focused solely on my grenades. I got to the old mastery level but my other weapons were still in the single digits and teens... Made it harder to level them up.

Invasion leveling might be doing the same thing...

[Maximvs]

Well, its the same problem we've always faced even with just the Pearl Quest or any Side Quest vs. only doing a Pirate with weapons like you, I and a few others have done: we know that free REP drains away damage to weapons - the question becomes is the entertainment value worth it...

In this case I believe its ok for the higher levels - only because of the 2 factors which Ironhawks chart shows us to calculate the levels (Noriety REP + Weapon REP / 2) (See Ironhawks awesome Chart Guide Here). If I am a Level 35 with a Level 20 Sword ( or in numbers 35+20=55/2=27.5 rounded up = 28 and after a few battles I hit 36 ( 36+20=56/2-28) it made no difference at all... I still need L28 or better enemies to get the best REP score. In the 40s it would take several invasions just to change one of those numbers - so there no worry there.

The lower levels do take a hit, but unlike the much larger Pearl Quest the hit is not nearly as large. If I'm 25 with a Sword of 9 to start (24+9=34/2=17) and after a few rounds I'm Level 26 with a sword of 11 (26+11=37/2=18.8 rounded to 19) it does mean I need L19 enemies to get max REP - but many enemies can still be found for my L26 guy to kill at L19.

The only thing I would be careful of is the weapons balence as EX mentions - its too tempting to favor one weapon and ignoring the others for battles (hence if I get 4 noriety to get from L21 to 25 that day but my pistol is still only level 5 - beating higher level enemies with a L5 pistol will be a pain).

Does this mean lower levels should not do invasions? I don't think so - feel free to join in , because a) if they are somewhat careful to keep balenced weapons they can mostly keep their REPs good and b) the real issue of being more entertained (instead of just weapon grainding all day) more than justifies a bit of hard work that may be required

(There will always be players who just jump on for the invasions and jump off though - they will have to deal with levelling on their own terms though )

In the end - its a very good point Basil and a good reminder to everyone that though invasions are fun, always be working all your weapons (espically thouse you don't use during invasions during the off times) and levelling when you can so as not to throw off your pirates balence too much

[Captain Whale]

Aye, have always heard this referred to as "Gimping".

This problem is out there already as some pirates are always asking for help to complete quests. They let the higher lvl do the work and just go collect thier rewards. Later on they are high level but thier skills are not. They cannot fight the yellow lvl enemies they should be able to. Thier pirates are now Gimped.

When ever I help out lower lvl pirates I just heal them and may attune the enemy and use Curse on it. But I make them to do work so they get the rep. Most are thankful in the end but some have actually refused to take my help becuase I won't do it for them. lol

I have a similar problem on my first pirate with grenades - but getting it caught up. My second pirate has kept everything close together and it really helps.

Captain Whale

[Eliza Creststeel]

Thus the problem of using short-cuts. You only short-cut yourself.

The rewards for a completed invasion does seem a bit steep if you think about it. Especially if you're doing several invasions a day, AND jumping servers to do even more.

Honestly, I'd do them - WITHOUT a REP reward.

Invasions have also cut off the Enemies Killed stats on XD. I'm not too hung up on my own, but I like posting our Guild Member stats.

[Benjamin Goldeagle]

Wow. That is a very good analysis of the situation, Basil. When you really think about it, that makes sense. I never looked at it that way.

When a really cool event comes out like invasions, it is hard to look at it in a negative way because you know they are only around for a limited time and you want to enjoy it while you can.

But, again, your analysis makes a lot of sense. I'm starting to see the invasions in a different light now. Don't get me wrong, the invasions are still pretty awesome, but at least I can now see the negative side of them.

[Tuefenhandel]

Maybe I just drank a little too much of the 'Be Happy' flavored Kool-Aide this morning, but shouldn't the point be that invasions are fun? Which, they totally are.

First time I stared down the barrell of my pistol at none other than Jolly Roger himself I thought "this is awesome".

If players are having fun, and generating enough excitement to have people putting out a call and flocking to the game then I say - good job devs.

[Basil Dreadflint]

I'm not saying that they aren't fun.
I'm not claiming that the invasions are bad.
I'm not telling people that they shouldn't fight JR.
I'm not against calling in a lot of your friends to join in.

I'm just saying that there can be "too much of a good thing". That the players should be aware that they can do their pirate development some serious damage if they just rely on the rep from invasions as a way to increase their notoriety. If they don't continue to follow some of the basic balanced development processes, and at least try to keep their weapons and skills up to par with their notoriety, they will have a hard time catching up later.

[JM Ohara]

Originally Posted by Basil Dreadflint

I'm just saying that there can be "too much of a good thing". That the players should be aware that they can do their pirate development some serious damage if they just rely on the rep from invasions as a way to increase their notoriety. If they don't continue to follow some of the basic balanced development processes, and at least try to keep their weapons and skills up to par with their notoriety, they will have a hard time catching up later.

Exactly. Even the GMs, Walter and Soot especially when you can catch them, say over and over, level your weapons. I think, seeing as GMs love to be cryptic, this is their way of saying yes, the invasions give skewed rep, don't forget your weapons.

[jason davy]

Eh. On my first pirate I finished the story (at notoriety 30 or 31) before I did any weapon leveling. Highest wep level was grenade at 15 and the others were far behind. Sailing was maxed and cannon was under 10. It was a little annoying to balance back out but it wasn't a big deal. I don't see it being a big deal here either except in extreme cases (going 20-40 without doing weps might be a problem). Would be more of an issue to lower levels than to higher.

[gingeeann]

I suspected that invasions might make weapons leveling difficult for my little pirates so I only used my level 45 + pirate that has mastered all her weapons.

I like to play with how I level up a pirate and see what works best for me and how I play the game.

I might try "an invasion pirate" and see how they turn out.

[Beorn]

Personally, I don't really think this is an issue. I have a skewed pirate, his grenades were maxed out, i think 27 now, and the rest of his weapons were left untended after I hit level 20. He is level 34 now and I am not sure exactly where his other weapons are, but having a hard time leveling them has made the game that much more challenging and therefore, in my opinion, way more fun. Sitting there and grinding against enemies that you can defeat without the use of a tonic is boring to me. Real pirates never had it easy, why should we? Without the challenge, what's the point in playing?

[Nathaniel Firegrin]

Good point! Thats why I never do my quests-I only level weapons for notoriety! Helps me win at pvp alot

Well, that was when I was unlimited access, of course...

[Capt C Ray]

Aye, you can get great rep during invasions. But your weapons also get rep. Last night in one invasion, my total rep at the end was 2112. My main weapon latelt during invasions has been me staff. I am a lvl 43. My staff was about half a bar from lvl 27 when the invasion started. In the end, my staff went to lvl 27, with 2 full bars.

Me point being, your weapons do get rep during the invasion in-line with your notority rep.

Capt C Ray

p.s. Hope I followed the content of this thread correctly.

[Angel Seafish]

Originally Posted by Capt C Ray

Aye, you can get great rep during invasions. But your weapons also get rep. Last night in one invasion, my total rep at the end was 2112. My main weapon latelt during invasions has been me staff. I am a lvl 43. My staff was about half a bar from lvl 27 when the invasion started. In the end, my staff went to lvl 27, with 2 full bars.

Me point being, your weapons do get rep during the invasion in-line with your notority rep.

Capt C Ray

p.s. Hope I followed the content of this thread correctly.

Thank you. That is very good to know that you get weapon rep too. I guess they knew what they were doing so they realized to give us weapon rep so your up to par. But this is only if you participated.