Time.... Is less eternal than the will to Respond.
 

Does Time Exist?

An interesting question to feed a Bored mind, post your Opinions and keep the Discussion Intellectual.

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I am I believer in Parminadies, who claimed Time was an Illusion, and that we are simply Passing through realms.

Nuju-

I beleive in time. How could it be possible for us to pass through realms so quickly? If so, wouldn't that make it possible to leave this realms and go back to a past realm, and change something?

In the immortal words of Depeche Mode: "It's just a question of time....."

"Time is what keeps everything from happening at once"- Ray Cummings
I think that quote is basic proof of the existence of time.

But does this not already happen? Time, say between 2 seconds, results in one having to take infinite steps to reach the follow seconds (As this time can be divided), however
if time stops things from occurring at once, then it has a Beginning.... so... wait... time...this is Borked!

Well, these Realms are infinite, because time cannot be. This Transition could become so over common that it doesn't phase matter any more and the byproduct is the Illusion of time.

Physics does not disprove Time Travel.

Nuju-

Time is hardly a physical factor, in my personal opinion. If clocks never ticked, or calendars were never written down, we would not be having this discussion. It wouldn't be measured in seconds, days, or years, as it would just be a blissful existence, with us only understanding so far as to the sun rising and setting each day. We would grow older, yes, but not in the sense that "time was passing;" simply put, our bodies were aging.

It may be hard to comprehend, but in the end time is still just a creation of the minds of man. It's just the same as the Fahrenheit Effect - once an idea is created, no matter how many books you burn, you can't kill it. Same as with time - no matter if you destroyed all the clocks in the world, people would still consider it to exist.

Remember, science may hold answers, but without the human imagination there would be no science to begin with.

You could have just Written inconclusive.

You speak of time in a sense of a Morale, from the experience in life, not in general. Nothing wrong with it, however I believe it's apart from the argument of time existing or not.

Nuju-

Um.... time does exist, and you sound like the real Nuju or at least one of the other ice toa

Where is your proof or at minimum a theory? It might exist, however as an Illusion.

I take this as a Compliment as our logic is identical.

Nuju-

Of course time exists, how could all realms be the same as this natural world?

Basically time exists because scientists say it exists. It's the same thing as gravity. You can't prove or disprove gravity, but you know there's a reason we don't just float up into space, so we call that reason gravity.

Time exists!

I have a subscription and I get it weekly.
Ask Morris Day! Their music is rad!
And it's on my side.

We can prove gravity through other elements, we cannot prove time through anything other than time. Spacetime is something else, if I'd say.

The same the Dimensions of Existence could be infinate?

Nuju-

So... in essence all opinions are wrong?

Time exists and the proof is decay.

If it does not show support to any given theroy, or create one of it's own.

Care to expand on this?

Nuju-

To indepth!!! It's like death! Is it pure darkness, and nothingness? Is it just a body stop running, and the soul is moved to another body, to be born a new, with no memory of past lives? Is it life after death? Is it the ABility to BE nothingness, while you can see, and undertsand everything?

That stuff is way to deep for humans to comprehend alone.

nope.avi ^

Time exists. It doesn't matter how it works, time exists. Even if your realm theory was true, then it would still be called time.

Time is the passing of events. Time is, as TSC said, the decay of matter. Time must exist for change to happen, as without time, there would not be change, movement, or anything really. If you want to have an example of something without time, then you may be familiar with Absolute Zero, or Zero Kelvin, about -273 Degrees Celsius. At this temperature things (as in particles, even as small as electrons) stop moving. Also when you are at Absolute Zero, you are able to store information. Light itself, if shined through it, is slowed so much that it almost stops (or completely, I am not sure about that). Now, if at Absolute Zero, time almost doesn't exist, then the opposite must be true for when it is NOT absolute zero, and things can be moving. Time DOES exist in this case. Still don't believe me? Time for more physics! Sit down children!

Based on the theories of many Physicists, it was deduced that if you are traveling at or near the speed of light (since it is actually impossible to travel at the speed of light in any technology we have today), then time actually goes faster for you. This would mean that you are aging faster, showing decay of matter (or at least the change), again, showing that time must have passed. Furthermore, this means that if you step out of your vehicle that was going at that high speed, you would be in a time period that would be slightly farther into the future than the people you left behind. Meaning, their clocks were going slower to put it simply. Time can be bent like that.

Time is no physical thing that is tangible. Instead, it is the name given to passing periods of change in matter and space. What we call time exists. You cannot argue that and if you do try, then please bring in not just philosophy, but actual physics. ;)

Okay, after many attempts to wrap my head around the subjects in this thread, let me give my two cents.

The existence of time may perhaps be debatable with your travelling through realms, but at the same time, can you define what a realm is? Dictionary.com (I would have used Merriam Webster, but Dictionary had a clearer definition) defines it as "the region, sphere, or domain within which anything occurs, prevails, or dominates". Would not time fall into one of these domains? Or are you speaking more as in different realms where separate incidents happen?

If we were to say this travelling does happen, how does it happen? How do we measure it happening? How do we say, instead of this happened 6 seconds ago, we say this happened 6 realms ago? However, if we were to say it happened 6 realms ago, it still happened in a realm that is behind us. We have traveled from realm A to realm G, therefore, it is a passing of time, though we wouldn't necessarily call it that.

Now, as for decay, let's say I have in my hand a newspaper. This newspaper is made up of molecules and atoms tightly packed together, yes? That much we have proven. Now, let's say we have this newspaper in one realm. You say that the passing over doesn't phase matter anymore. Then where does decay come from? What makes my newspaper fade to yellow and fall apart? Is it the passing through the realms, or is it time that is causing the bonds to weaken?

Another thing. You say these two things in the same post:
Care to stick to one of the opinions? Infinity is something the human mind finds difficult to wrap around because we cannot experience it. Our lifetimes are short, and we cannot see into the past or the future. However, there is nothing there that we know of that STOPS time. Or rather, as you put it, stops the passing through of the realms. However, as Tiberius said, time can be bent. It is relative. That's something I don't have the expertise to get into, however.

In my eyes, Time and your realms are one and the same. Both involve a passing through, whether it be of moments or of dimensions or realms or whatever your position is. There is always something behind us and something that is happening in the lightning strike of the moment. Whether you define that as time or realms is your choice.

Now, friend, you've asked others to prove that time exists. How can you do the same for your realms?

Oh, and one more question. Why is this in Sailor's Yarn?

Time.... it's happening right now... you can't see it, feel it, and smell it. It's there, while i'm typing its passing. Want proof? flowers.... You watch them grow. Time passes by, they beautiful :) Need more? Touch your head. feel it? hair... in one month it will be longer. Why? time passes by...

I won! Decay FTW!!

You're all small minded with your futile understanding of quantum physics.

As you know, Light is merely an energy based duality existence of wavelengths and frequency. When wavelength is increased, the frequency decreases, and so forth. When light reaches a state of frequency and wavelength that is suitable for our eyes to envision it, that's when we see light through our eyes. Light is not only limited to what we see; in fact, what we see is only a small fraction of "light".

Now onto the time factor. Time is the matter and energy of the universe progressing at a constant and yet relative state. Time theoretically runs on a duality existence in the same way as light. If there is no matter or energy, time itself wouldn't exist, for time requires either matter or energy to exist. Now what would happen if something reached absolute zero? Well first we must know that everything here must operate completely on theory, since absolute zero is scientifically unattainable. If any matter were to reach absolute zero, its atomic/molecular structure would be completely still. This means that there musn't be any energy convecting throughout said substance. But there is still matter, albiet frozen. Therefore, absolute zero is not an escape from time, it is merely an idea about matter without energy, which is unnatainable.

Now onto this realm buisness. There is no way to prove these technical realms exist, nor is there any way to disprove them. I don't believe any other "Universes" exist; again, there is no way to be sure about any of this.

Also, the decay factor is a very solid arguement as well. Another good example I'm surprised Crest didn't bring up is electron shells. Electron shells tend to go to their lowest states of matter; however this is not possible without reacting to other electrons through time. This shows that everything is connected through time, even in the smallest possible sense.

Now onto the relativity part. It is true what Tiberius said about relativity; it can even be observed through atomic particles at a much extrapolarative rate. The speed of light would technically "slow" time down, but only for whatever matter would be travelling at such a rate. Although, the same can't be said for energy, since we can observe its wavelength and frequency. If light wasn't bound by time, why would it have a certain number of wavelengths attributing to a measuring source in a certain amount of time?

Thank you for the interesting discussion, I hope we can have more of these scientific debates.

~Mr. Skip

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/u...gm/chicken.png

As much as I'm not a man of science as I am a man of language and history, I will say that in essence there are two ways you can look at time - either as a measurement, or as a state of scientific development. Both are connected in the sense they are both time, yet they also cover two individual topics.

Time being defined as a case of measurement, such as the actual seconds and minutes we use to measure time, can be considered not necessarily real simply because we came up with that as a unit of measurement all on it's own.

However, this connects to the idea of what time is necessarily.

What does time measure? Time, obviously.

Weight is to weight as time is to time - a rock may not actually be labeled with a certain, set restriction on what it can be known as, but at the same time it does indeed have weight attributed to it. This can also be applied to the universe, in a sense that while time is not physical as a measurement, it is physical in the sense it exists.

Of course, this takes us back to the question of what time essentially is. When you bring it in to a sense, time is the consecutive passing and movement of energy which provides an essential and continuous series of events that is, at a sense, ever-continuing. You can't argue the existence of energy if you argue against the existence of time, because both are intertwined in the fact energy causes time.

This is indeed Glorious to see so many Detailed Responses on the Matter, now before I continue, I would like to explain my Theron on this subject as I've only given a minor facing of it. Considering that Time is a very debatable subject, which has no conclusive proof for the moment - Near every Proof has enough Holes; this allows many interesting interpretations.

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In a sense of beginning, my Theory is attempt at Blending Parmenides (His argument of Time is an Illusion), with Current Day Adapted Brain theory- which implies that our Existence is one of Infinite Realms, Separate universes if you will, that can interact with one another yet not be seen. Also trying to mash quantum mechanics in there to make it plausible or explain a few Phenomena.

Now I will do my best to explain Parmenides "Time is an Illusion Concept"- Going on the Impression of Infinity. To from one minute to the next, theoretically, one would have to pass through an Infinite states to reach the next -Rule of Dividing by 2- Therefor time is Infinite. However say existence has a beginning, then time could not exist under that principle if we follow one of it's attributes. The best explanation for this is that Change-(Time) is an Illusion.

We can apply the same to motion, a meter and be infinitely divided, so in context, one would have to take infinite steps to move any distance, However we do not take infinite steps, Otherwise motion does not exist- But movement does exist! If Motion does not exist then change and any landmark for time also doesn't exist; Things change though.... Right?

Applying Brain theory, as a means to explain this Illusion would claim that from the infinite number of Realms as separate existences which influence one another, we imply each realm is a still of reality with no movement. To Create the function of passing through these realms which could be one of any, one must create another dimension of Consciousness which does not interact with Reality, yet influences it. This also enables time travel as one can visit any moment through realm movement.

Then Looking at this through Quantum Mechanics, in the 1950s/60s, there was an attempt to merge QM with General Relativity, completing the Equation removes time as a Constant.
Implying that Quantum Mechanics apply to existence as a law of Physics (Allowing particles to be in Multiple places at once or just randomly burst into reality), not just restricted to the sub atomic world makes supports the "Illusion of Time" being set in the instant. Past that, with all aspects combined, the only regarded movement in existence would be influenced by another dimension, and the changes per realm are quantum mechanics applying to the large scale world.

Conclusion; Time is an Illusion and Consciousness is a Dimension.

Realm, a fraction of Existence. Atleast from my view.

Existence is This- EVERYTHING, from every atom, to known Space. It is the Collage of Infinite Realms all effecting on another.

A Realm is a still of existence making up the infinite collage.

We could not measure it for every Realm being that it relies upon the illusion of time to be infinate, we could visit any still of Existance.

Decay is the movement of matter on the quantum level- Quantum Mechanics allow Objects to share an existence in space, what's to say they can't slowly phase out while appearing elsewhere?

I just realized that EPIC typo, Post has been fixed for accuracy.

What's to say that Quantum Mechanics doesn't mean everything exists all at once and the only separation we have is infinite realms, which can proceed in any order?

I couldn't find a more adapt Subforum. It was close enough to "Off Topic/Other Discussions" for me.

No, I ask them to gain a more adapt understanding of the various opinions and beliefs upon a topic which is about as accurate as any religion. Each requires a bit of Faith until we can bring an absolute proof.

Thou shalt not deduce one's knowledge of a subject from less than a paragraph of a partial statement. Much less 2 sentences.

I apologize for not responding to every post in a detailed manner, however I'm a bit rushed for the Realms Being.

Nuju-

I'm just saying some of these arguements may disprove themselves. The whole realms thing doesn't have any basis on anything we can observe. We can think about it, and theorize it, but there's no possible way to ever experience it yourself. Time is something you can experience. Not nescisarrily as a constant force on your own consciousness, but as an effective drive that shows its way through other things.

Let me ask you this: If there were no humans, would there be time? If there would be no way to experience it, would it exist? If the whole universe was just filled with matter and energy, would any science exist? No, everything would run on itself, with nobody to observe. Science is basically the study of probability; being able to tell what should happen through observable evidence.

This is one of the reasons the whole realm thing might deduct itself. If there were no one around to experience such a thing, could it exist? Could the field fluctuations and dark matter in this universe have come from another? Nobody can really give proof for either arguements against all this. No, nothing can really be proved by science, it merely shows possible directions followed by the universe we live in.

Do ideas exist? Do laws exist? We can't touch them, observe them, so how do we know? Well we simply use these things to view the world around us. Also, I have nothing against your beliefs; if its what you think about the universe, good for you. But I would just like to show you that those ideas existed long after the universe was created. If there was nobody to think up such a thing, would it exist?

Oh, and do realize I'm possibly the biggest jerk you're likely to find on the forums; comments about other people's intellegence are all too commonly used by me. :)

Which one? I thought I corrected that Logic Typo on the other Page...

Well, time would be a possible phenomena with or without life. It might just be dead as an Illusion as there would be nobody to experience it. Instead Infinite Versions of Static Realms would remain silent from use until something comes along to experience it, apart the usual applications of Quantum Objects.


I'm just going to simplify this... Do these Realms Exist?

In context, this "Illusion of Time" which we interpret as Humans is the act of passing through realms where each still is Quantum Mechanics apply to own own Wold. Now the Laws of Physics apply just as General Relativity, Quantum is arguably one of these as well, and if it's correct then quite simply its supposed to apply to all of existence- Which Realm Theory allows. Past that, if one is willing to believe, there are 2 possibilities for us to witness this realm transition.

Option one would be to Travel through a Black Hole as to every Black Hole, there is a White Hole with the Opposite Effect, either elsewhere in the universe or another Verse all together. Passing through this Black Hole would result in one passing to another Realm. We would know it is a Realm because it has no similar context to the previous one we experience.

Variant 2 would be to look at the Quantum world, and see this Blur of Particles transition through space, by slowing things down to a Realm Transition one could see the exact position of all these Objects.


Find a new hobby? Trolling iz Fun.

Nuju-

My opinion is that, if you take a flower bud and watch it eventually blossom, the unit of (there's no other way to describe it) time between those two points could be classed as time from anyone's point of view, as the moment we set the flower down onto the ground will not be the same as the moment we see the flower blossom, if you understand. I suppose anything could describe it, but time is the name it's given.

On the other hand, there may be no such thing as time, like you suggest, and the world is just moving and growing of its own accord. We could say that instead of saying that things decay over 'time'. I've never thought about time this way, but I think I could safely say that with deep thoughts like these, there is a chance that someone, somewhere, will learn the secret of time.

Apologies if I'm a little behind in the conversation, because I only read the first post and a few other ones that caught my eye as I scrolled through the thread.

MY HEAD HURTS!!!! This isa way to indepth! Shall we converse on our opinions about what death will be like, then prove every opinion wrong?

Travel through a black hole? But its an ultra dense gravity field attracting objects faster than the speed of light. Event horizons, lookz it up.

So let me get this straight: What you're trying to say is that there is no real line of time that the entire multiverse runs on? That time is effectively just the individual areas of progression attained in certain realms? How could anyone know such a thing? How would somebody learn about things never experienced, or something that continues to show its effects? This is why I don't really believe these realms have any basis on reality, because there's no way to show its not just a human concept.

Also, nobody really "knows" any of the laws of physics perfectly. Everything we observe isn't exactly as we percieve it. Sure some things might be generally close, but the laws of physics aren't exactly concrete postulates. So what if another realm was discovered? How would it be discovered? How could we ever experience different realms ourselves?

Why?!?!? Why can't we just agree that we weould all like an R2-D2 robot and get along?

Theoretically, or maybe in the future we discover Anti Gravity Materials/Laws. Another way to say this would be travel through a wormhole.

If we follow this one Statement; Take 2 Points in time, constantly devise the distance between them- Time is Infinite or the Illusion of it. An Infinite Existence has both it's Past, Present and Future Existing all at once. What this allows is the Principle of Time Travel, which Physics allows. These Realms could easiest be described as a Music Playlist, they can exist in order, however when one presses "Play" they follow a certain order. Except it never started, it just is on a continuous loop.

We don't know it, however as I've stated it's a great way to explain everything without saying "GOD!".

We've all experienced them, we call it "Time"...

I just explained the Possibility to Witness a Realm.
Another Possibility could be a Zero G, Absolute Zero, Vacuum, as we generally find all extremes here.

Past that if we want anything to work. We take the laws of Physics as an Indefinite Truth, never flawed.


Nuju-

So time does exist. You have said it in your third quote response to Skip.

Large Fonts are painful to read with everything else in context...

It's difficult in a discussion where one is claiming time is a Illusion not mention the word.

Nuju-

Wierd, an absence of things = nothing? Can nothing exist? Does everything have to be connected into realms? I think some of this may have gotten out of hand, so let me simplify.

What I basically envision time as is something that doesn't technically exist only in the physical world. It is more of a metaphysical signature that our brains percieve through the progress of events.

In reality, time is out of reach, no one can claim to capture time or perfectly examine it directly. Time is something we really see the effects of. I understand what you mean by time is basically an illusion. In the laws of the universe, time might not really exist in the sense we believe it does; but instead its really what we think about the rate of progression in the universe.

Please understand that even things that have been called "scientific laws" for hundreds of years have been disproven as technology grows. Even things now we might see as perfectly true may be falsified in the future.

So I'm just wondering, why would you use examples such as ones given by a guy named Sir Isaac Newton, who was a strong believer in universal time?

I know the context may sound confusing, but isn't language? Have you ever explored the complex depths of language? Have you ever seen how the brain processes words through thought? Does anyone know? Of course. Does anyone know how it happens? Not really, only a few people at most. So I ask you: Who are you to know all about these mystical realms that continuously evade the eyes of scientists everywhere?